{"language": "en", "speaker_count": 2, "speakers": {"S1": {"first_words": "At the time that you started working in", "share": 0.13}, "S2": {"first_words": "I had come to Stanford in 1962 from", "share": 0.87}}, "segments": [{"start": 0.1, "end": 9.1, "text": "At the time that you started working in computer music, most computer usage was for purposes like accounting and ballistics calculations.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 9.7, "end": 13.9, "text": "What made you even think of using computers as a creative tool?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 14.6, "end": 19.7, "text": "I had come to Stanford in 1962 from three years studying in Paris.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 20.4, "end": 27.0, "text": "With Nadia Boulanger, who was a well-known teacher, and people such as Aaron Copland.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 28.5, "end": 31.4, "text": "Quincy Jones and I were there at the same time studying.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 32.1, "end": 38.6, "text": "So she was an important figure in Paris, musical circles, but as important", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 39.3, "end": 45.1, "text": "to my own education as Nadia Boulanger was the musical scene in general in Paris.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 45.8, "end": 58.8, "text": "Pierre Boulez was a young avant-garde enfant terrible, often referred to in such a way, in Paris and had a series of concerts, the Domaine Musical,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 59.4, "end": 65.5, "text": "in which he presented new music, much of which had to do with loudspeakers, electronic music, made by", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 66.6, "end": 77.4, "text": "the various kinds of devices that one found in radio studios broadcasting in those days, oscillators, filters, things that could be turned to musical uses by", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 78.5, "end": 83.6, "text": "by composers if given the opportunity to work in some of these studios.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 84.3, "end": 90.0, "text": "So when I came to Stanford, having had this rich experience in Europe,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 90.7, "end": 97.1, "text": "I, as a graduate student, I asked if there were possibilities for such, and there were none.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 97.8, "end": 98.9, "text": "There was no studio.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 99.2, "end": 101.0, "text": "There was poor electronic music.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 101.0, "end": 105.1, "text": "The only one that I knew of in this country was at Columbia at that time.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 105.5, "end": 108.1, "text": "In any case, my second year of graduate school,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 109.5, "end": 119.7, "text": "my graduate studies with Leland Smith in composition, oh, not musicology as is noted in the book, but rather I'm a composer by training.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 120.9, "end": 124.9, "text": "I was given an article that Max Matthews had written.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 125.2, "end": 127.2, "text": "Max was a researcher at Bell Labs.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 128.0, "end": 138.3, "text": "Director of the Behavioral Research Lab, and his interests not only were engineering and engineering sciences, but also music.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 138.4, "end": 146.8, "text": "And he had developed a program which allowed computers to be used to generate acoustic signals.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 147.4, "end": 158.6, "text": "This, of course, was of interest in the scientific community for speech research, but Max's interests were in music, and he wrote this article published in Science", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 159.4, "end": 163.0, "text": "in November 1963 describing this program.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 163.6, "end": 164.6, "text": "So that was the beginning.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 166.4, "end": 171.9, "text": "Now, in the very beginning of electronic music, the electronics we're talking about were actually analog.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 172.6, "end": 179.9, "text": "By the timing of your start in the electronic music field, you managed to get in on the ground floor.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 180.0, "end": 186.7, "text": "of digital electronic music, in the very beginning, access to computers must have been a very big problem.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 187.2, "end": 197.7, "text": "Well, it was, but Stanford had a kind of open view toward this and had made an invitation to the School of Humanities to", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 198.4, "end": 200.8, "text": "look at computers and possible applications.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 201.2, "end": 210.8, "text": "So there was a coincidence that was my good fortune, that is, having looked at this article by Max, also realizing that the", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 211.3, "end": 217.5, "text": "computer science department, which was then part of the School of Humanities and Sciences, was open to", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 218.2, "end": 222.9, "text": "uses other than the sort of applications which you described at the outset.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 223.5, "end": 232.6, "text": "So I met a young undergraduate, David Poole, who was a tuba player in the orchestra, Stanford Orchestra.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 232.7, "end": 233.2, "text": "I was the", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 234.4, "end": 238.3, "text": "timpanist at the time, a 30-year-old graduate student.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 238.7, "end": 242.2, "text": "David was probably a 19 or 20-year-old undergraduate.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 242.8, "end": 255.6, "text": "He saw me at the computer center one day holding a big box of IBM cards which I had acquired from Max at Bell Labs and asked what I was doing and I told him that I was going to", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 256.3, "end": 265.3, "text": "try and implement this program on the computer system at Stanford, and he jumped in and offered to help me.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 266.5, "end": 269.8, "text": "I think without David, I may not have", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 270.1, "end": 282.6, "text": "had been successful in these early years because it was laborious, it was difficult, one had to have fairly comprehensive understanding of how computers work.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 283.0, "end": 286.6, "text": "My last math course had been in high school, so it was a long", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 287.4, "end": 294.8, "text": "way for me to, let's say it would have been a bit of a stretch for me to have tried to accomplish this all by myself.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 295.3, "end": 301.1, "text": "So David taught me basically all that I needed to know over the course of several years.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 301.6, "end": 305.5, "text": "He got the program going, taught me how to program, taught me", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 306.2, "end": 312.8, "text": "the basics of acoustics, all the things that I needed to understand in order to begin work with the computer.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 313.2, "end": 325.8, "text": "Now, it turns out that his solution to getting continuous data stream of samples from a big IBM 7090 to a digital analog converter, which was actually", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 326.6, "end": 330.0, "text": "the two ladders, the x, y coordinates of a deck scope,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 330.9, "end": 344.0, "text": "This continuous data stream, in order not to have small segments of sound, but rather continuous sound, turned out to be a solution to increasing the number of timeshare", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 344.6, "end": 350.1, "text": "users on this PDP-1 deck timesharing system, which I think", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 350.8, "end": 359.3, "text": "supported two or three users and David's solution to the problem of data bandwidth and continuous samples.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 360.6, "end": 363.2, "text": "also solved their problem for fast swapping.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 363.7, "end": 370.6, "text": "And as I remember, the number of users after he did that went from two or three to eight or ten, something of that sort.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 371.1, "end": 377.3, "text": "So he became a very important part of the artificial intelligence laboratory.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 378.4, "end": 386.6, "text": "He finished his graduate work and then went on and did some, finished his undergraduate, I'm sorry, then did some graduate work.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 386.7, "end": 395.8, "text": "But he basically became a kind of the system guru of the lab that John McCarthy directed in the early years.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 397.0, "end": 402.2, "text": "When you came to Stanford then, you did not immediately go to the AI lab.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 402.2, "end": 404.4, "text": "That was subsequent in your career.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 404.8, "end": 407.7, "text": "When did you go from the regular campus to the AI lab?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 407.7, "end": 416.1, "text": "And given that you were a professor of music at that point rather than a professor of math or computer science, what motivated you to move out there?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 416.6, "end": 427.3, "text": "I was a graduate student actually until 1966 when I finished my doctorate, but the initial work was done at the computer center on campus", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 428.2, "end": 433.5, "text": "on a PDP-1 which shared a 2314 disk with an IBM 7090.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 435.3, "end": 449.9, "text": "In 1966 is when the AI project acquired a PDV-6, which was a large machine, time-shared, and moved to the DC Power Laboratory on the Rastrodaro Road.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 451.2, "end": 454.5, "text": "And it was then that I started teaching as well that year.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 456.9, "end": 467.0, "text": "Your move to the SAIL facility then out on Arastadero Road was motivated in large part by your desire to have access to the computing resources there.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 467.5, "end": 477.9, "text": "Did you have a lot of contact with the faculty who were doing the more hardcore computer science research like robotics or formal proofs of computer programs?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 478.4, "end": 479.1, "text": "Yes, I did.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 479.1, "end": 485.7, "text": "I mean, it was one community of people, some having more stature than others, I'd say.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 485.7, "end": 493.9, "text": "I was not funded, and the work that I did, and also with Leland Smith, who joined me in this work,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 495.3, "end": 501.1, "text": "had been my composition professor, then in 1966 a colleague, senior colleague.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 503.0, "end": 515.7, "text": "We were unsupported, so therefore we were constrained in the hours in which we could use the system to weekends and nights, and I would say some very late nights.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 516.9, "end": 528.9, "text": "But there was one researcher, Raj Reddy, who went on to Carnegie Mellon, and I think director of their robotics lab, who at that time was working in speech recognition.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 529.8, "end": 535.8, "text": "And he and I, of course, had some common interest in that we were both", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 536.4, "end": 538.5, "text": "interested in the acoustic domain.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 539.3, "end": 539.9, "text": "So that was", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 540.0, "end": 541.6, "text": "was a rich connection.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 542.7, "end": 549.6, "text": "I must say I used the body of people at the AI lab to my own advantage.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 549.7, "end": 560.4, "text": "I was able to ask many people many questions and get good solid answers about things that were common knowledge to those who were educated in the sciences.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 561.5, "end": 564.9, "text": "And so it was a very rich environment from my point of view.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 566.7, "end": 580.3, "text": "I think of all the people, probably David Poole was the most important, but in my own particular work, because he wrote a special compiler that was native to the PDP-6, PDP-10 family of computers.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 581.0, "end": 588.9, "text": "And in doing that, he taught me programming in assembly language, whatnot, and sort of shepherded me through the", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 589.9, "end": 600.2, "text": "life at the AI lab, protecting me from occasionally arrogant scientists who would have liked less competition for compute cycles.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 600.2, "end": 602.0, "text": "But in general, it was a...", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 602.3, "end": 605.6, "text": "Pretty nice environment and supportive, I would say.", "speaker": "S2"}], "summary": {"title": "Discussion on Early Computer Music and Transition to AI Lab at Stanford", "abstract": "The meeting covers the origins of digital electronic music at Stanford, highlighting the speaker's (S2) journey from studying in Paris to pioneering computer music in the U.S. It also discusses the transition from campus computing to the AI Lab, the challenges of early digital sound synthesis, and collaborations with computer science researchers.", "outline": ["Early influences in Paris and exposure to avant-garde electronic music", "Discovery of Max Mathews' computer music program at Bell Labs", "Collaboration with David Poole to implement the program at Stanford", "Technical challenges and solutions in early digital sound synthesis", "Transition from campus computing to the AI Lab in 1966", "Interactions with AI Lab researchers, including Raj Reddy", "Experiences and challenges as an unsupported researcher at the AI Lab"], "decisions": ["S2 decided to pursue computer music after reading Max Mathews' article in Science (1963)", "S2 and David Poole collaborated to implement the program on Stanford's PDP-1", "S2 moved to the AI Lab in 1966 to access better computing resources"], "open_points": ["No explicit open points or tasks were discussed in the transcript"]}, "source": {"title": "Interview with John Chowning, part 1 (2006)", "channel": "Interview by Alison Chaiken with John Chowning · Wikimedia Commons", "url": "https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JohnChowning041306_part1.ogg", "license": "CC BY-SA 3.0", "license_url": "https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/", "duration_s": 606}, "peaks": [0.292, 0.466, 0.348, 0.321, 0.362, 0.476, 0.375, 0.503, 0.795, 0.443, 0.365, 0.462, 0.295, 0.258, 0.187, 0.603, 0.175, 0.57, 0.49, 0.375, 0.612, 0.392, 0.463, 0.436, 0.465, 0.437, 0.43, 0.254, 0.545, 0.558, 0.383, 0.355, 0.393, 0.254, 0.205, 0.351, 0.333, 0.169, 0.264, 0.354, 0.522, 0.279, 0.325, 0.298, 0.768, 0.323, 0.507, 0.461, 0.434, 0.262, 0.192, 0.32, 0.199, 0.299, 0.429, 0.659, 0.681, 0.311, 0.52, 0.171, 0.402, 0.246, 0.222, 0.333, 0.577, 0.442, 0.317, 0.222, 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{"start": 9.7, "end": 13.9, "text": "Was brachte Sie dazu, Computer als kreatives Werkzeug zu betrachten?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 14.6, "end": 19.7, "text": "Ich kam 1962 von drei Jahren Studium in Paris nach Stanford.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 20.4, "end": 27.0, "text": "Bei Nadia Boulanger, die eine bekannte Lehrerin war, und Menschen wie Aaron Copland.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 28.5, "end": 31.4, "text": "Quincy Jones und ich waren zur gleichen Zeit dort und studierten.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 32.1, "end": 38.6, "text": "Sie war also eine wichtige Figur in den Pariser Musikerkreisen, aber genauso wichtig", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 39.3, "end": 45.1, "text": "für meine eigene Ausbildung wie die allgemeine Musikszene in Paris.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 45.8, "end": 58.8, "text": "Pierre Boulez war ein junger avantgardistischer Enfant terrible, oft so bezeichnet, in Paris und veranstaltete eine Reihe von Konzerten, die Domaine Musical.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 59.4, "end": 65.5, "text": "in dem er neue Musik präsentierte, von der viel mit Lautsprechern, elektronischer Musik zu tun hatte,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 66.6, "end": 77.4, "text": "den verschiedenen Arten von Geräten, die man in Rundfunkstudios der damaligen Zeit fand, Oszillatoren, Filter, Dinge, die von", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 78.5, "end": 83.6, "text": "Komponisten für musikalische Zwecke genutzt werden konnten, wenn ihnen die Gelegenheit gegeben wurde.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 84.3, "end": 90.0, "text": "Als ich also nach Stanford kam, nachdem ich in Europa diese reichen Erfahrungen gesammelt hatte,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 90.7, "end": 97.1, "text": "fragte ich als Graduate Student, ob es solche Möglichkeiten gäbe, und es gab keine.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 97.8, "end": 98.9, "text": "Es gab kein Studio.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 99.2, "end": 101.0, "text": "Es gab kaum elektronische Musik.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 101.0, "end": 105.1, "text": "Der Einzige, den ich zu dieser Zeit in diesem Land kannte, war der an der Columbia University.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 105.5, "end": 108.1, "text": "Auf jeden Fall mein zweites Jahr im Graduiertenstudium,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 109.5, "end": 119.7, "text": "mein Graduiertenstudium bei Leland Smith in Komposition, oh, nicht Musikwissenschaft, wie im Buch steht, sondern ich bin von Beruf Komponist.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 120.9, "end": 124.9, "text": "Mir wurde ein Artikel gegeben, den Max Matthews geschrieben hatte.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 125.2, "end": 127.2, "text": "Max war Forscher bei den Bell Labs.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 128.0, "end": 138.3, "text": "Leiter des Behavioral Research Lab, und seine Interessen lagen nicht nur in Ingenieurwesen und Ingenieurwissenschaften, sondern auch in der Musik.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 138.4, "end": 146.8, "text": "Und er hatte ein Programm entwickelt, das es ermöglichte, Computer zur Erzeugung akustischer Signale zu nutzen.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 147.4, "end": 158.6, "text": "Dies war natürlich für die wissenschaftliche Gemeinschaft im Bereich der Sprachforschung von Interesse, aber Max‘ Interessen lagen in der Musik, und er veröffentlichte diesen Artikel in Science", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 159.4, "end": 163.0, "text": "im November 1963, in dem er dieses Programm beschrieb.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 163.6, "end": 164.6, "text": "Das war also der Anfang.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 166.4, "end": 171.9, "text": "Nun, ganz am Anfang der elektronischen Musik waren die Elektronik, von der wir sprechen, tatsächlich analog.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 172.6, "end": 179.9, "text": "Zu dem Zeitpunkt, als Sie in der elektronischen Musik anfingen, sind Sie also ganz am Anfang dabei gewesen.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 180.0, "end": 186.7, "text": "der digitalen elektronischen Musik, ganz am Anfang, der Zugang zu Computern muss damals ein großes Problem gewesen sein.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 187.2, "end": 197.7, "text": "Ja, das war es, aber Stanford hatte eine eher offene Haltung dazu und hatte die School of Humanities eingeladen,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 198.4, "end": 200.8, "text": "sich mit Computern und möglichen Anwendungen zu beschäftigen.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 201.2, "end": 210.8, "text": "Es war also ein glücklicher Zufall, dass ich diesen Artikel von Max gelesen hatte und auch erkannte, dass die", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 211.3, "end": 217.5, "text": "Abteilung für Informatik, die damals Teil der School of Humanities and Sciences war, offen für", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 218.2, "end": 222.9, "text": "verwendet andere als die Anwendungen, die Sie zu Beginn beschrieben haben.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 223.5, "end": 232.6, "text": "Ich traf also einen jungen Undergraduate, David Poole, der Tubist im Stanford-Orchester war.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 232.7, "end": 233.2, "text": "Ich war der", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 234.4, "end": 238.3, "text": "Timpanist zu der Zeit, ein 30-jähriger Graduiertenstudent.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 238.7, "end": 242.2, "text": "David war wahrscheinlich ein 19- oder 20-jähriger Student.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 242.8, "end": 255.6, "text": "Eines Tages sah er mich im Computerzentrum, wo ich einen großen Karton mit IBM-Karten in den Händen hielt, die ich von Max bei den Bell Labs bekommen hatte. Er fragte mich, was ich da täte, und ich erklärte ihm, dass ich versuchen würde,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 256.3, "end": 265.3, "text": "dieses Programm am Computersystem der Stanford University zu implementieren, woraufhin er sich sofort anbot, mir zu helfen.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 266.5, "end": 269.8, "text": "Ich glaube, ohne David hätte ich es vielleicht nicht geschafft.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 270.1, "end": 282.6, "text": "war in diesen frühen Jahren erfolgreich gewesen, weil es mühevoll war, weil es schwierig war, man musste ein recht umfassendes Verständnis dafür haben, wie Computer funktionieren.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 283.0, "end": 286.6, "text": "Mein letzter Mathematikkurs lag in der High School zurück, also war es für mich ein langer", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 287.4, "end": 294.8, "text": "Weg, sagen wir mal, es wäre für mich eine ziemliche Herausforderung gewesen, das alles allein zu schaffen.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 295.3, "end": 301.1, "text": "David hat mir also im Laufe mehrerer Jahre im Grunde alles beigebracht, was ich wissen musste.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 301.6, "end": 305.5, "text": "Er hat das Programm zum Laufen gebracht, mir gezeigt, wie man programmiert, mir", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 306.2, "end": 312.8, "text": "die Grundlagen der Akustik beigebracht, alles, was ich verstehen musste, um mit dem Computer zu arbeiten zu beginnen.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 313.2, "end": 325.8, "text": "Es stellte sich nun heraus, dass seine Lösung, einen kontinuierlichen Datenstrom von Samples von einem großen IBM 7090 zu einem Digital-Analog-Wandler zu übertragen, tatsächlich", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 326.6, "end": 330.0, "text": "die beiden Leitern, die x-, y-Koordinaten eines Deck-Scopes,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 330.9, "end": 344.0, "text": "Dieser kontinuierliche Datenstrom, um keine kleinen Tonsegmente, sondern einen durchgehenden Ton zu haben, erwies sich als Lösung, um die Anzahl der Timeshare-Nutzer zu erhöhen", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 344.6, "end": 350.1, "text": "auf diesem PDP-1-Deck-Timesharing-System, das ich glaube,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 350.8, "end": 359.3, "text": "zwei oder drei Nutzer unterstützte, und Davids Lösung für das Problem der Datenbandbreite und der kontinuierlichen Abtastung", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 360.6, "end": 363.2, "text": "löste auch ihr Problem des schnellen Wechsels.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 363.7, "end": 370.6, "text": "Und soweit ich mich erinnere, stieg die Anzahl der Nutzer nach dieser Maßnahme von zwei oder drei auf acht oder zehn, so ähnlich.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 371.1, "end": 377.3, "text": "So wurde er ein sehr wichtiger Teil des KI-Labors.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 378.4, "end": 386.6, "text": "Er beendete seine Graduiertenarbeit und ging dann weiter und machte, entschuldige, seinen Bachelor, dann machte er einige Graduiertenarbeiten.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 386.7, "end": 395.8, "text": "Aber er wurde im Grunde so etwas wie der Systemguru des Labors, das John McCarthy in den frühen Jahren leitete.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 397.0, "end": 402.2, "text": "Als Sie dann nach Stanford kamen, gingen Sie nicht sofort ins KI-Labor.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 402.2, "end": 404.4, "text": "Das kam später in Ihrer Karriere.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 404.8, "end": 407.7, "text": "Wann wechselten Sie vom Hauptcampus zum KI-Labor?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 407.7, "end": 416.1, "text": "Und da Sie zu diesem Zeitpunkt Professor für Musik waren und nicht für Mathematik oder Informatik, was hat Sie dazu motiviert, dorthin zu wechseln?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 416.6, "end": 427.3, "text": "Ich war tatsächlich bis 1966, als ich meinen Doktortitel abschloss, Graduiertenstudent, aber die ersten Arbeiten wurden im Rechenzentrum auf dem Campus durchgeführt", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 428.2, "end": 433.5, "text": "auf einem PDP-1, der eine 2314-Platte mit einem IBM 7090 teilte.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 435.3, "end": 449.9, "text": "1966 war dann das Jahr, in dem das KI-Projekt einen PDV-6 erhielt, eine große, timesharing-fähige Maschine, und in das DC Power Laboratory an der Rastrodaro Road umzog.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 451.2, "end": 454.5, "text": "Und ab diesem Jahr begann ich auch zu unterrichten.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 456.9, "end": 467.0, "text": "Ihre Entscheidung, zum SAIL-Standort und dann weiter an die Arastadero Road zu ziehen, wurde maßgeblich von Ihrem Wunsch nach Zugang zu den dortigen Rechenressourcen motiviert.", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 467.5, "end": 477.9, "text": "Hatten Sie viel Kontakt mit den Dozenten, die die eher anspruchsvolle Informatikforschung betrieben, wie Robotik oder formale Beweise von Computerprogrammen?", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 478.4, "end": 479.1, "text": "Ja, das hatte ich.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 479.1, "end": 485.7, "text": "Ich meine, es war eine Gemeinschaft von Menschen, von denen einige mehr Ansehen genossen als andere, würde ich sagen.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 485.7, "end": 493.9, "text": "Ich wurde nicht finanziert, und die Arbeit, die ich – und auch mit Leland Smith, der sich mir bei dieser Arbeit anschloss –", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 495.3, "end": 501.1, "text": "war mein Kompositionprofessor gewesen, dann 1966 ein Kollege, ein erfahrener Kollege.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 503.0, "end": 515.7, "text": "Wir wurden nicht unterstützt, daher waren wir in den Zeiten, in denen wir das System nutzen konnten, auf Wochenenden und Nächte beschränkt, und ich würde sagen, einige sehr späte Nächte.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 516.9, "end": 528.9, "text": "Aber es gab einen Forscher, Raj Reddy, der später an die Carnegie Mellon University ging und dort, glaube ich, Direktor ihres Robotiklabors wurde, der damals an der Spracherkennung arbeitete.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 529.8, "end": 535.8, "text": "Und er und ich hatten natürlich einige gemeinsame Interessen, da wir beide", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 536.4, "end": 538.5, "text": "uns für den akustischen Bereich interessierten.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 539.3, "end": 539.9, "text": "Das war", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 540.0, "end": 541.6, "text": "eine fruchtbare Verbindung.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 542.7, "end": 549.6, "text": "Ich muss sagen, ich habe die Menschen am AI-Labor für meine eigenen Zwecke genutzt.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 549.7, "end": 560.4, "text": "Ich konnte vielen Leuten viele Fragen stellen und solide Antworten zu Dingen erhalten, die für diejenigen, die in den Naturwissenschaften ausgebildet waren, Allgemeinwissen darstellten.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 561.5, "end": 564.9, "text": "Und aus meiner Sicht war es eine sehr bereichernde Umgebung.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 566.7, "end": 580.3, "text": "Von allen Menschen war wahrscheinlich David Poole der wichtigste für mich, aber in meiner eigenen Arbeit insbesondere, weil er einen speziellen Compiler schrieb, der für die PDP-6- und PDP-10-Computerfamilie ausgelegt war.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 581.0, "end": 588.9, "text": "Und dabei hat er mir Programmieren in Assembler beigebracht, und so weiter, und hat mich sozusagen durch die", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 589.9, "end": 600.2, "text": "Zeit am AI-Labor geführt, indem er mich vor gelegentlich arroganten Wissenschaftlern beschützte, die weniger Konkurrenz bei den Rechenzyklen gewollt hätten.", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 600.2, "end": 602.0, "text": "Aber im Großen und Ganzen war es ein...", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 602.3, "end": 605.6, "text": "Ziemlich angenehmes Umfeld und, würde ich sagen, unterstützend.", "speaker": "S2"}]}, "words": [{"start": 0.1, "end": 0.2, "text": "At", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 0.2, "end": 0.3, "text": "the", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 0.3, "end": 0.5, "text": "time", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 0.6, "end": 0.7, "text": "that", "speaker": "S1"}, {"start": 0.7, "end": 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"text": "in", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 601.0, "end": 601.3, "text": "general,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 601.3, "end": 601.4, "text": "it", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 601.5, "end": 601.6, "text": "was", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 601.6, "end": 602.0, "text": "a...", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 602.3, "end": 602.5, "text": "Pretty", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 602.6, "end": 602.8, "text": "nice", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 602.8, "end": 603.4, "text": "environment", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 604.0, "end": 604.3, "text": "and", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 604.4, "end": 604.9, "text": "supportive,", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 605.0, "end": 605.0, "text": "I", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 605.1, "end": 605.3, "text": "would", "speaker": "S2"}, {"start": 605.3, "end": 605.6, "text": "say.", "speaker": "S2"}], "srt": "1\n00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:05,500\nS1: At the time that you started working\nin computer music, most computer usage was\n\n2\n00:00:05,500 --> 00:00:09,100\nS1: for purposes like accounting and\nballistics calculations.\n\n3\n00:00:09,700 --> 00:00:13,900\nS1: What made you even think of using\ncomputers as a creative tool?\n\n4\n00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:19,700\nS2: I had come to Stanford in 1962 from\nthree years studying in Paris.\n\n5\n00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:25,900\nS2: With Nadia Boulanger, who was a\nwell-known teacher, and people such as\n\n6\n00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:31,300\nS2: Aaron Copland. Quincy Jones and I were\nthere at the same time studying.\n\n7\n00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:38,600\nS2: So she was an important figure in\nParis, musical circles, but as important\n\n8\n00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:45,100\nS2: to my own education as Nadia Boulanger\nwas the musical scene in general in Paris.\n\n9\n00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:52,500\nS2: Pierre Boulez was a young avant-garde\nenfant terrible, often referred to in\n\n10\n00:00:52,700 --> 00:00:59,500\nS2: such a way, in Paris and had a series\nof concerts, the Domaine Musical, in\n\n11\n00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,400\nS2: which he presented new music, much of\nwhich had to do with loudspeakers,\n\n12\n00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:09,800\nS2: electronic music made by the various\nkinds of devices that one found in radio\n\n13\n00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:15,700\nS2: studios broadcasting in those days,\noscillators, filters, things that could be\n\n14\n00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:22,700\nS2: turned to musical uses by by composers\nif given the opportunity to work in some\n\n15\n00:01:22,700 --> 00:01:29,200\nS2: of these studios. So when I came to\nStanford, having had this rich experience\n\n16\n00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:35,300\nS2: in Europe, I, as a graduate student, I\nasked if there were possibilities for\n\n17\n00:01:35,300 --> 00:01:37,100\nS2: such, and there were none.\n\n18\n00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,000\nS2: There was no studio. There was poor\nelectronic music.\n\n19\n00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,100\nS2: The only one that I knew of in this\ncountry was at Columbia at that time.\n\n20\n00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:50,900\nS2: In any case, my second year of\ngraduate school, my graduate studies with\n\n21\n00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:57,200\nS2: Leland Smith in composition, oh, not\nmusicology as is noted in the book, but\n\n22\n00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,700\nS2: rather I'm a composer by training.\n\n23\n00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:04,900\nS2: I was given an article that Max\nMatthews had written.\n\n24\n00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,200\nS2: Max was a researcher at Bell Labs.\n\n25\n00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:14,200\nS2: Director of the Behavioral Research\nLab, and his interests not only were\n\n26\n00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,900\nS2: engineering and engineering sciences,\nbut also music, and he had developed a\n\n27\n00:02:20,900 --> 00:02:26,800\nS2: program which allowed computers to be\nused to generate acoustic signals.\n\n28\n00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,300\nS2: This, of course, was of interest in\nthe scientific community for speech\n\n29\n00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:37,900\nS2: research, but Max's interests were in\nmusic, and he wrote this article published\n\n30\n00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,000\nS2: in Science in November 1963 describing\nthis program.\n\n31\n00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:44,700\nS2: So that was the beginning.\n\n32\n00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,200\nS1: Now, in the very beginning of\nelectronic music, the electronics we're\n\n33\n00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:51,900\nS1: talking about were actually analog.\n\n34\n00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:58,100\nS1: By the timing of your start in the\nelectronic music field, you managed to get\n\n35\n00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:04,100\nS1: in on the ground floor of of digital\nelectronic music, in the very beginning,\n\n36\n00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,700\nS1: access to computers must have been a\nvery big problem.\n\n37\n00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:13,900\nS2: Well, it was, but Stanford had a kind\nof open view toward this and had made an\n\n38\n00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,900\nS2: invitation to the School of Humanities\nto look at computers and possible\n\n39\n00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:25,000\nS2: applications. So there was a\ncoincidence that was my good fortune, that\n\n40\n00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:31,700\nS2: is, having looked at this article by\nMax, also realizing that the computer\n\n41\n00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,100\nS2: science department, which was then\npart of the School of Humanities and\n\n42\n00:03:35,100 --> 00:03:41,800\nS2: Sciences, was open to uses other than\nthe sort of applications which you\n\n43\n00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:48,500\nS2: described at the outset. So I met a\nyoung undergraduate, David\n\n44\n00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,600\nS2: Poole, who was a tuba player in the\norchestra, Stanford Orchestra.\n\n45\n00:03:52,700 --> 00:03:58,300\nS2: I was the timpanist at the time, a\n30-year-old graduate student.\n\n46\n00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:02,200\nS2: David was probably a 19 or 20-year-old\nundergraduate.\n\n47\n00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:08,000\nS2: He saw me at the computer center one\nday holding a big box of IBM cards, which\n\n48\n00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:10,000\nS2: I had acquired from Max at Bell Labs.\n\n49\n00:04:10,700 --> 00:04:17,500\nS2: And asked what I was doing and I told\nhim that I was going to try and implement\n\n50\n00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:24,500\nS2: this program on the computer system at\nStanford and he jumped in and\n\n51\n00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:30,700\nS2: offered to help me. I think without\nDavid I had been\n\n52\n00:04:31,100 --> 00:04:35,700\nS2: successful in these early years\nbecause it was laborious, it was\n\n53\n00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:41,600\nS2: difficult, one had to have fairly\ncomprehensive understanding of how\n\n54\n00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,600\nS2: computers work. My last math course\nhad been in high school, so it was a long\n\n55\n00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,100\nS2: way for me to, let's say it would have\nbeen a bit of a stretch for me to have\n\n56\n00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:54,800\nS2: tried to accomplish this all by\nmyself.\n\n57\n00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:59,900\nS2: So David taught me basically all that\nI needed to know through over the course\n\n58\n00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,500\nS2: of several years. He got the program\ngoing, taught me how to program, taught me\n\n59\n00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,800\nS2: the basics of acoustics, all the\nthings that I needed to understand in\n\n60\n00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,800\nS2: order to begin work with the computer.\n\n61\n00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:19,900\nS2: Now, it turns out that his solution to\ngetting continuous data stream of samples\n\n62\n00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:26,700\nS2: from a big IBM 7090 to a digital\nanalog converter, which was actually the\n\n63\n00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:33,400\nS2: two ladders, the x, y coordinates of a\nDEX scope, This continuous data stream, in\n\n64\n00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:39,100\nS2: order not to have small segments of\nsound, but rather continuous sound, turned\n\n65\n00:05:39,100 --> 00:05:45,400\nS2: out to be a solution to increasing the\nnumber of timeshare users on\n\n66\n00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:52,000\nS2: this PDP-1 deck timesharing system,\nwhich I think supported two or three\n\n67\n00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:58,800\nS2: users and David's solution to the\nproblem of data bandwidth and continuous\n\n68\n00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,200\nS2: samples. also solved their problem for\nfast swapping.\n\n69\n00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:08,700\nS2: And as I remember, the number of users\nafter he did that went from two or three\n\n70\n00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:10,600\nS2: to eight or ten, something of that\nsort.\n\n71\n00:06:11,100 --> 00:06:17,300\nS2: So he became a very important part of\nthe artificial intelligence laboratory.\n\n72\n00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,900\nS2: He finished his graduate work and then\nwent on and did some, finished his\n\n73\n00:06:23,900 --> 00:06:26,600\nS2: undergraduate, I'm sorry, then did\nsome graduate work.\n\n74\n00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:33,100\nS2: But he basically became a kind of the\nsystem guru of the lab that John McCarthy\n\n75\n00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:35,800\nS2: directed in the early years.\n\n76\n00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,200\nS1: When you came to Stanford then, you\ndid not immediately go to the AI lab.\n\n77\n00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,400\nS1: That was subsequent in your career.\n\n78\n00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,700\nS1: When did you go from the regular\ncampus to the AI lab?\n\n79\n00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:52,500\nS1: And given that you were a professor of\nmusic at that point rather than a\n\n80\n00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:56,100\nS1: professor of math or computer science,\nwhat motivated you to move out there?\n\n81\n00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,900\nS2: I was a graduate student actually\nuntil 1966 when I finished my doctorate,\n\n82\n00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:08,400\nS2: but the initial work was done at the\ncomputer center on campus on a\n\n83\n00:07:08,500 --> 00:07:13,500\nS2: PDP-1 which shared a 2314 disk with an\nIBM 7090.\n\n84\n00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:22,000\nS2: In 1966 is when the AI project\nacquired a PDV-6, which was a\n\n85\n00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:28,800\nS2: large machine, time shared, and moved\nto the DC Power Laboratory on the\n\n86\n00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:34,500\nS2: Rastrodaro Road. And it was then that\nI started teaching as well that year.\n\n87\n00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:42,000\nS1: Your move to the SAIL facility then\nout on Arrested Arrow Road was motivated\n\n88\n00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,000\nS1: in large part by your desire to have\naccess to the computing resources there.\n\n89\n00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:52,200\nS1: Did you have a lot of contact with the\nfaculty who were doing the more hardcore\n\n90\n00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:57,400\nS1: computer science research like\nrobotics or formal proofs of computer\n\n91\n00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:58,200\nS1: programs?\n\n92\n00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,900\nS2: Yes, I did. I mean, it was one\ncommunity of people, some having more\n\n93\n00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,700\nS2: stature than others, I'd say.\n\n94\n00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:12,100\nS2: I was not funded, and the work that I\ndid, and also with Leland Smith, who\n\n95\n00:08:12,100 --> 00:08:18,200\nS2: joined me in this work, who had been\nmy composition professor, then in\n\n96\n00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,100\nS2: 1966, a colleague, senior colleague.\n\n97\n00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,800\nS2: We were unsupported, so therefore we\nwere constrained in the hours in which we\n\n98\n00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:35,300\nS2: could use the system to weekends and\nnights, and I would say some very late\n\n99\n00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:42,400\nS2: nights. But there was... One\nresearcher, Raj Reddy, who went on to\n\n100\n00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:47,100\nS2: Carnegie Mellon and I think director\nof their robotics lab, who at that time\n\n101\n00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:53,900\nS2: was working in speech recognition, and\nhe and I, of course, had some\n\n102\n00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:58,500\nS2: common interest in that we were both\ninterested in the acoustic domain.\n\n103\n00:08:59,300 --> 00:09:01,600\nS2: So that was a rich connection.\n\n104\n00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:09,600\nS2: I must say I used the body of people\nat the AI lab to my own advantage.\n\n105\n00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:15,800\nS2: I was able to ask many people many\nquestions and get good solid answers about\n\n106\n00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:20,400\nS2: things that were common knowledge to\nthose who were educated in the sciences.\n\n107\n00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:24,900\nS2: And so it was a very rich environment\nfrom my point of view.\n\n108\n00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:31,800\nS2: I think of all the people, probably\nDavid Poole was the most important, but in\n\n109\n00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,500\nS2: my own particular work, because he\nwrote a special compiler that was native\n\n110\n00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,300\nS2: to the PDP-6, PDP-10 family of\ncomputers.\n\n111\n00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,100\nS2: And in doing that, he taught me\nprogramming in assembly language, whatnot,\n\n112\n00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:52,400\nS2: and sort of shepherded me through the\nlife at the AI lab, protecting me from\n\n113\n00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,500\nS2: occasionally arrogant scientists who\nwould have, scientists who would have\n\n114\n00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,200\nS2: liked less competition for compute\ncycles.\n\n115\n00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,000\nS2: But in general, it was a...\n\n116\n00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:05,600\nS2: Pretty nice environment and\nsupportive, I would say.\n", "vtt": "WEBVTT\n\n00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:05.500\nS1: At the time that you started working\nin computer music, most computer usage was\n\n00:00:05.500 --> 00:00:09.100\nS1: for purposes like accounting and\nballistics calculations.\n\n00:00:09.700 --> 00:00:13.900\nS1: What made you even think of using\ncomputers as a creative tool?\n\n00:00:14.600 --> 00:00:19.700\nS2: I had come to Stanford in 1962 from\nthree years studying in Paris.\n\n00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:25.900\nS2: With Nadia Boulanger, who was a\nwell-known teacher, and people such as\n\n00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:31.300\nS2: Aaron Copland. Quincy Jones and I were\nthere at the same time studying.\n\n00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:38.600\nS2: So she was an important figure in\nParis, musical circles, but as important\n\n00:00:39.300 --> 00:00:45.100\nS2: to my own education as Nadia Boulanger\nwas the musical scene in general in Paris.\n\n00:00:45.700 --> 00:00:52.500\nS2: Pierre Boulez was a young avant-garde\nenfant terrible, often referred to in\n\n00:00:52.700 --> 00:00:59.500\nS2: such a way, in Paris and had a series\nof concerts, the Domaine Musical, in\n\n00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.400\nS2: which he presented new music, much of\nwhich had to do with loudspeakers,\n\n00:01:03.500 --> 00:01:09.800\nS2: electronic music made by the various\nkinds of devices that one found in radio\n\n00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:15.700\nS2: studios broadcasting in those days,\noscillators, filters, things that could be\n\n00:01:15.700 --> 00:01:22.700\nS2: turned to musical uses by by composers\nif given the opportunity to work in some\n\n00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:29.200\nS2: of these studios. So when I came to\nStanford, having had this rich experience\n\n00:01:29.300 --> 00:01:35.300\nS2: in Europe, I, as a graduate student, I\nasked if there were possibilities for\n\n00:01:35.300 --> 00:01:37.100\nS2: such, and there were none.\n\n00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:41.000\nS2: There was no studio. There was poor\nelectronic music.\n\n00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:45.100\nS2: The only one that I knew of in this\ncountry was at Columbia at that time.\n\n00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:50.900\nS2: In any case, my second year of\ngraduate school, my graduate studies with\n\n00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:57.200\nS2: Leland Smith in composition, oh, not\nmusicology as is noted in the book, but\n\n00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:59.700\nS2: rather I'm a composer by training.\n\n00:02:00.900 --> 00:02:04.900\nS2: I was given an article that Max\nMatthews had written.\n\n00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:07.200\nS2: Max was a researcher at Bell Labs.\n\n00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.200\nS2: Director of the Behavioral Research\nLab, and his interests not only were\n\n00:02:15.200 --> 00:02:20.900\nS2: engineering and engineering sciences,\nbut also music, and he had developed a\n\n00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:26.800\nS2: program which allowed computers to be\nused to generate acoustic signals.\n\n00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:31.300\nS2: This, of course, was of interest in\nthe scientific community for speech\n\n00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:37.900\nS2: research, but Max's interests were in\nmusic, and he wrote this article published\n\n00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:43.000\nS2: in Science in November 1963 describing\nthis program.\n\n00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:44.700\nS2: So that was the beginning.\n\n00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.200\nS1: Now, in the very beginning of\nelectronic music, the electronics we're\n\n00:02:50.300 --> 00:02:51.900\nS1: talking about were actually analog.\n\n00:02:52.600 --> 00:02:58.100\nS1: By the timing of your start in the\nelectronic music field, you managed to get\n\n00:02:58.100 --> 00:03:04.100\nS1: in on the ground floor of of digital\nelectronic music, in the very beginning,\n\n00:03:04.200 --> 00:03:06.700\nS1: access to computers must have been a\nvery big problem.\n\n00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:13.900\nS2: Well, it was, but Stanford had a kind\nof open view toward this and had made an\n\n00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:19.900\nS2: invitation to the School of Humanities\nto look at computers and possible\n\n00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:25.000\nS2: applications. So there was a\ncoincidence that was my good fortune, that\n\n00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:31.700\nS2: is, having looked at this article by\nMax, also realizing that the computer\n\n00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.100\nS2: science department, which was then\npart of the School of Humanities and\n\n00:03:35.100 --> 00:03:41.800\nS2: Sciences, was open to uses other than\nthe sort of applications which you\n\n00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:48.500\nS2: described at the outset. So I met a\nyoung undergraduate, David\n\n00:03:48.600 --> 00:03:52.600\nS2: Poole, who was a tuba player in the\norchestra, Stanford Orchestra.\n\n00:03:52.700 --> 00:03:58.300\nS2: I was the timpanist at the time, a\n30-year-old graduate student.\n\n00:03:58.700 --> 00:04:02.200\nS2: David was probably a 19 or 20-year-old\nundergraduate.\n\n00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:08.000\nS2: He saw me at the computer center one\nday holding a big box of IBM cards, which\n\n00:04:08.100 --> 00:04:10.000\nS2: I had acquired from Max at Bell Labs.\n\n00:04:10.700 --> 00:04:17.500\nS2: And asked what I was doing and I told\nhim that I was going to try and implement\n\n00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:24.500\nS2: this program on the computer system at\nStanford and he jumped in and\n\n00:04:24.500 --> 00:04:30.700\nS2: offered to help me. I think without\nDavid I had been\n\n00:04:31.100 --> 00:04:35.700\nS2: successful in these early years\nbecause it was laborious, it was\n\n00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:41.600\nS2: difficult, one had to have fairly\ncomprehensive understanding of how\n\n00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:46.600\nS2: computers work. My last math course\nhad been in high school, so it was a long\n\n00:04:47.400 --> 00:04:52.100\nS2: way for me to, let's say it would have\nbeen a bit of a stretch for me to have\n\n00:04:52.100 --> 00:04:54.800\nS2: tried to accomplish this all by\nmyself.\n\n00:04:55.300 --> 00:04:59.900\nS2: So David taught me basically all that\nI needed to know through over the course\n\n00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:05.500\nS2: of several years. He got the program\ngoing, taught me how to program, taught me\n\n00:05:06.200 --> 00:05:09.800\nS2: the basics of acoustics, all the\nthings that I needed to understand in\n\n00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.800\nS2: order to begin work with the computer.\n\n00:05:13.200 --> 00:05:19.900\nS2: Now, it turns out that his solution to\ngetting continuous data stream of samples\n\n00:05:19.900 --> 00:05:26.700\nS2: from a big IBM 7090 to a digital\nanalog converter, which was actually the\n\n00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:33.400\nS2: two ladders, the x, y coordinates of a\nDEX scope, This continuous data stream, in\n\n00:05:33.400 --> 00:05:39.100\nS2: order not to have small segments of\nsound, but rather continuous sound, turned\n\n00:05:39.100 --> 00:05:45.400\nS2: out to be a solution to increasing the\nnumber of timeshare users on\n\n00:05:45.400 --> 00:05:52.000\nS2: this PDP-1 deck timesharing system,\nwhich I think supported two or three\n\n00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:58.800\nS2: users and David's solution to the\nproblem of data bandwidth and continuous\n\n00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:03.200\nS2: samples. also solved their problem for\nfast swapping.\n\n00:06:03.700 --> 00:06:08.700\nS2: And as I remember, the number of users\nafter he did that went from two or three\n\n00:06:08.700 --> 00:06:10.600\nS2: to eight or ten, something of that\nsort.\n\n00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:17.300\nS2: So he became a very important part of\nthe artificial intelligence laboratory.\n\n00:06:18.400 --> 00:06:23.900\nS2: He finished his graduate work and then\nwent on and did some, finished his\n\n00:06:23.900 --> 00:06:26.600\nS2: undergraduate, I'm sorry, then did\nsome graduate work.\n\n00:06:26.700 --> 00:06:33.100\nS2: But he basically became a kind of the\nsystem guru of the lab that John McCarthy\n\n00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:35.800\nS2: directed in the early years.\n\n00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:42.200\nS1: When you came to Stanford then, you\ndid not immediately go to the AI lab.\n\n00:06:42.200 --> 00:06:44.400\nS1: That was subsequent in your career.\n\n00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:47.700\nS1: When did you go from the regular\ncampus to the AI lab?\n\n00:06:47.700 --> 00:06:52.500\nS1: And given that you were a professor of\nmusic at that point rather than a\n\n00:06:52.500 --> 00:06:56.100\nS1: professor of math or computer science,\nwhat motivated you to move out there?\n\n00:06:56.600 --> 00:07:00.900\nS2: I was a graduate student actually\nuntil 1966 when I finished my doctorate,\n\n00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:08.400\nS2: but the initial work was done at the\ncomputer center on campus on a\n\n00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:13.500\nS2: PDP-1 which shared a 2314 disk with an\nIBM 7090.\n\n00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:22.000\nS2: In 1966 is when the AI project\nacquired a PDV-6, which was a\n\n00:07:22.100 --> 00:07:28.800\nS2: large machine, time shared, and moved\nto the DC Power Laboratory on the\n\n00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:34.500\nS2: Rastrodaro Road. And it was then that\nI started teaching as well that year.\n\n00:07:36.900 --> 00:07:42.000\nS1: Your move to the SAIL facility then\nout on Arrested Arrow Road was motivated\n\n00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:47.000\nS1: in large part by your desire to have\naccess to the computing resources there.\n\n00:07:47.500 --> 00:07:52.200\nS1: Did you have a lot of contact with the\nfaculty who were doing the more hardcore\n\n00:07:52.400 --> 00:07:57.400\nS1: computer science research like\nrobotics or formal proofs of computer\n\n00:07:57.400 --> 00:07:58.200\nS1: programs?\n\n00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:03.900\nS2: Yes, I did. I mean, it was one\ncommunity of people, some having more\n\n00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.700\nS2: stature than others, I'd say.\n\n00:08:05.700 --> 00:08:12.100\nS2: I was not funded, and the work that I\ndid, and also with Leland Smith, who\n\n00:08:12.100 --> 00:08:18.200\nS2: joined me in this work, who had been\nmy composition professor, then in\n\n00:08:18.200 --> 00:08:21.100\nS2: 1966, a colleague, senior colleague.\n\n00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:28.800\nS2: We were unsupported, so therefore we\nwere constrained in the hours in which we\n\n00:08:28.900 --> 00:08:35.300\nS2: could use the system to weekends and\nnights, and I would say some very late\n\n00:08:35.400 --> 00:08:42.400\nS2: nights. But there was... One\nresearcher, Raj Reddy, who went on to\n\n00:08:42.500 --> 00:08:47.100\nS2: Carnegie Mellon and I think director\nof their robotics lab, who at that time\n\n00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:53.900\nS2: was working in speech recognition, and\nhe and I, of course, had some\n\n00:08:53.900 --> 00:08:58.500\nS2: common interest in that we were both\ninterested in the acoustic domain.\n\n00:08:59.300 --> 00:09:01.600\nS2: So that was a rich connection.\n\n00:09:02.700 --> 00:09:09.600\nS2: I must say I used the body of people\nat the AI lab to my own advantage.\n\n00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:15.800\nS2: I was able to ask many people many\nquestions and get good solid answers about\n\n00:09:16.700 --> 00:09:20.400\nS2: things that were common knowledge to\nthose who were educated in the sciences.\n\n00:09:21.500 --> 00:09:24.900\nS2: And so it was a very rich environment\nfrom my point of view.\n\n00:09:26.700 --> 00:09:31.800\nS2: I think of all the people, probably\nDavid Poole was the most important, but in\n\n00:09:31.800 --> 00:09:36.500\nS2: my own particular work, because he\nwrote a special compiler that was native\n\n00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:40.300\nS2: to the PDP-6, PDP-10 family of\ncomputers.\n\n00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:46.100\nS2: And in doing that, he taught me\nprogramming in assembly language, whatnot,\n\n00:09:46.500 --> 00:09:52.400\nS2: and sort of shepherded me through the\nlife at the AI lab, protecting me from\n\n00:09:52.800 --> 00:09:57.500\nS2: occasionally arrogant scientists who\nwould have, scientists who would have\n\n00:09:57.800 --> 00:10:00.200\nS2: liked less competition for compute\ncycles.\n\n00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:02.000\nS2: But in general, it was a...\n\n00:10:02.300 --> 00:10:05.600\nS2: Pretty nice environment and\nsupportive, I would say.\n", "meta": {"minutes_billed": 11, "options": "speakers=true, timestamps=word, translate=de; second run with vocabulary=Max Mathews, Bell Labs, Stanford (and the interviewee's name, left out of this demo) for the glossary example"}, "glossary": {"terms": ["Max Mathews", "Bell Labs", "Stanford"], "pairs": [{"before": "I was given an article that Max Matthews had written.", "after": "I was given an article that Max Mathews had written."}]}}